18 Science Communication - with Jen
Get tips for talking about birdwatching with other people.
This episode gives you advice about communicating about bird science, sharing your stories and embracing your birder identity.
Jen Martin worked as a field ecologist before founding the University of Melbourne's 'Science Communication Teaching Program', which teaches scientists across all disciplines to be engaging and effective communicators. She also practises what she preaches: she’s been talking about science weekly on 3RRR radio for 18 years, hosts podcasts (including Let’s Talk SciComm), MCs events, teaches as part of the Homeward Bound Faculty, writes for a variety of publications, was named the 2019 Unsung Hero of Australian Science Communication. Jen’s first popular science book, ‘Why am I like this? The science behind your weirdest thoughts and habits’ was published in 2022.
Available on your podcast app or listen below.
Links
* Jen's linktr.ee (links to social media accounts and projects) - https://linktr.ee/scidocmartin
* Jen's blog - https://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/science-communication/#tab1428
* Let's Talk SciComm podcast - https://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/science-communication/blog-posts/podcast/
* Field Guide to the Birds of Australia by Graeme Pizzey and Frank Knight - www.harpercollins.com.au/9780732291938/the-field-guide-to-the-birds-of-australia-9th-edition/
* Pizzey and Knight's 'Birds of Australia' app - www.gibbonmm.com.au/Portal.aspx
-
Kirsty: The Wurundjeri people take their name from the Woiwurrung word 'wurun' (which means the Manna Gum) and 'djeri' (the grub which is found in or near the tree). Wurundjeri are the 'Witchetty Grub People' and their Ancestors have lived on this land for millennia. I would like to pay my respect to Elders past and present, and extend this respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders living around Australia.
Kirsty: Welcome to Weekend Birder, a podcast that has been included in Apple's annual 'Shows We Loved' list under the category 'Podcasts that helped us flourish'. So exciting! I'm your host, Kirsty Costa and today's guest, Dr. Jen Martin, is a well known ecologist, science communicator, media personality and teacher. Here is how Jen grew her love of nature and Australian wildlife.
Jen: I think like so many of us, it started when I was quite a small child. I was really fortunate to be brought up in a family where we did spend a lot of time in nature, a lot of time camping and in the bush and riding our bikes. And having a dad who is a zoologist, a professional zoologist, means that you spend a lot of time in nature. Some of the most fun memories I have was going into the field with him and learning how to triangulate frogs. And I remember going to Healesville Sanctuary once and helping do an ibis count and all these vague memories. And oh! I went to Kangaroo Island once, I think, to count kangaroos. I spent a lot of time in nature and always had that perception that nature was somewhere special and beautiful, and somewhere that gave you a break from the day-to-day. I guess the sort of equity justice fighting person in me always had the sense, "So why do humans kind of wreck everything? And why are humans always at the forefront of everything? And these forests and these beaches and these wetlands and these animals and plants, they need a voice too". So I think that was kind of how conservation and biology became an important thing for me.
Kirsty: Jen worked as a Field Ecologist in the first part of her career, and she has lots of great birdwatching memories to share.
Jen: I feel incredibly fortunate that I've had some amazing birdwatching experiences and I'm going to share a couple that sound a little bit exotic but that's not to suggest I don't just love watching the kookaburras in my local park. I've got two stories where I had unexpected and unbelievable luck in seeing birds that I will just never forget. So the first one was that dropping into Kingfisher Park up near Gillette and on the Atherton Tablelands. I'm sure some people will have heard of because it's a birdwatching mecca and haven. We knew that the Buff-breasted Paradise Kingfishers (these most beautiful, beautiful kingfishers you could ever imagine) tend to arrive from Papua New Guinea in mid October and early November. We were there maybe a few weeks before that and so we literally just drove in, parked and went into the office and said... what we planned to do was go into the office and say, "Hey, any chance you've seen any Buff-breasted Paradise Kingfishers? You know, is there any point in us having a wander?". We parked the car, got out of the car, took one step towards the office and there was a Buff-breasted Paradise Kingfisher sitting on the tree right in front of us. You just sort of pinch yourself and think, "I couldn't possibly really be here because they're just such stunning, stunning birds". And then a similar experience camping with my then partner (now husband) Euan, doing fieldwork for his PhD up in the Kimberley. We were camped at Mount Heart Station, which you access on the Gibb River Road, so really remote. And we'd done our dawn work (our survey work) early, and Euan had made himself a cup of tea and I'd gone back to the tent. I don't know, maybe I was having a lie down. We were working pretty ridiculous hours. Or maybe I'd just gone to get something... I can't remember. And I heard this very quiet, but very insistent, "Jen!". Oh my gosh! "What's happened? What's happened?". Stuck my head out of the tent and Euan was frantically signaling for me to come over and signalling at his binoculars, meaning "Bring your binoculars with you!". And so I crept over and he'd sat down to have his cup of tea just beside a little waterhole. And a mixed flock of finches had come in to have a little morning bath and a drink. And there was a whole lot of Gouldians in the flock. And again, you just pinch yourself and think, "What did I do to be so fortunate?". These birds that can be so hard to find just arrived and we got to sit there quietly and watch these stunning finches, including a whole lot of Gouldians, and so it was just it was really special.
Kirsty: I can really relate to Jen's stories because some of my favourite birdwatching memories also involve seeing a rare bird in the carpark. I wonder how many more of us there are out there! Jen's childhood of being immersed in nature and conservation led her to studying ecology and completing a PhD in Behavioural Ecology. Behavioural Ecologists are scientists who research how animals adapt to the environment they are living in.
Jen: On the one hand, I loved that because getting to see the world through some animal's eyes and spending a lot of time in nature and really being part almost of a population of animals. I worked on on Brow Bucks and Mountain Brushtail Possums up in north eastern Victoria. So on one level it was amazing. But on another level I started to have massive misgivings about the value of what I was doing because on the one hand the university was telling me that what was important was to publish papers in high impact factor journals, to go to academic conferences to share my work at a kind of an intellectual level with other scientists. But I was out there in the forest thinking, "But hang on. Those people have no power to play any role in on the ground conservation. I need to be talking with all of the local landowners, the farmers, the policy makers, the local government". And so I had this kind of massive crisis to some extent where I thought, "What's the point of collecting all this information? I need to think about how to actually have impact". And I was really fortunate that a year out of my PhD I took had the opportunity to take part in a competition called Fresh Science, and I'd never heard of science communication before then. I didn't even know what it was, although I was doing it, of course. And that competition made me see really clearly that scientists can be trained in effective communication skills. It's not hard, but it is an active process. You don't just pick it up along the way. You have to learn the skills. You have to have a great teacher, you have to take on feedback. It's a really iterative process to learn how to communicate complex ideas to different audiences and using different mediums of communication. And so I came back thinking, "Why on earth don't we teach science students how to communicate effectively? That does seem crazy to me". I had a position at Melbourne Uni at that stage (just a one year position) teaching and researching. And when I asked, "Excuse me, but why don't we teach communication skills? Because it seems fundamental to me that this is how our students would excel as students. How they would get jobs? How they would have impact? How they would really thrive in their careers? Why don't we teach it?". And the response I got was, "Oh, you don't have to teach it. They just pick it up by osmosis". And I'm like, "No, that's not true!". So that began a really long and quite difficult process of trying to establish a teaching program for science students. So not training people to become professional science communicators, but arguing that every science student needs to learn the fundamentals of effective communication and how to communicate for different audiences in really engaging ways. I don't actually do any Ecology in my job anymore. I lead an amazing team of incredibly skilled people who all began or still are active research scientists, but are really dedicated and committed to helping our science students become more effective communicators. And it's absolutely a labour of love. We adore what we do. We work really hard but it's just so rewarding and we do it in lots of different ways. We all are active science communicators ourselves, plus we get to work with students at Melbourne Uni and we work with lots of other organisations and research groups all around Australia. It's pretty awesome.
Kirsty: That sounds like a really cool job and I must confess that it wouldn't have been something that I would have aspired to when I was a teenager. I gave up science in Year 10. I didn't find it satisfying, I didn't like guessing the answer that I knew was already in the teacher's head and I really disliked working from a textbook. You might have been the same. Yet here we are, friend, excited about wild birds and birdwatching science. So with that in mind, I am so glad we get to hang out with Jen in this episode because she gets it. She's been talking about science on 3RRR radio for 18 years. She's been an MC at events, she writes for a variety of publications, and in 2019 she was named the 'Unsung Hero of Australian Science Communication'. Jen also hosts a podcast with Dr. Michael Wheeler and it's called 'Let's Talk SciComm'.
Jen: Our podcast came about because we recognized that it was no longer such a big stretch to argue that scientists needed to learn communication skills. Over the previous decade, when I just had refused to give up, it had become really clear to a lot more people that communication skills were essential as well as having real world influence. Also, it's the number one criteria that most almost all employers are looking for when they're employing Science graduates. So it wasn't a stretch to say that we were doing our students this huge disservice if we didn't help them develop their communication skills. But of course, not every scientist comes and studies with us. Not everyone wants to. Not everyone has the time. We run a lot of workshops but not everyone can get to them. Writing a textbook didn't really seem like a particularly useful thing because who's going to go and buy an expensive textbook and read it? And it just suddenly dawned on us that creating a podcast that was really easy to access, obviously free, but also just really easy listening, short half hour episodes in which we really helped any listener think about how they could be more effective communicators. So half of our episodes are 'how to' episodes - everything from how to beat procrastination through to how to write a better thesis, how to give a great science talk, how to edit your writing, how to write for different audiences. And then the other half are interviews with scientists from all different areas who are now doing all sorts of different jobs, where they are actively communicating and exploring what they do, why they do it, and what they've learned along the way and what advice they have. And it's just been such a joy. We've had the opportunity to interview some really incredible people. It's just wonderful when you get feedback from listeners saying, "Oh, that was really cool. I really learned something from that". So we love it. It's great.
Jen: There are a lot of reasons why science communication is important. The most obvious argument perhaps, is that most scientific research, at least in Australia, is publicly funded. So funding is coming from the government - big grants. wwhat that means is that essentially that research is being paid for by taxpayers. I think ethically that means that those taxpayers should have access to know what was the research about what what did the researchers find out and what does it mean for me or for my family or my community or the world. And the fact is that unless scientists are spending their time communicating broadly, we don't meet that criteria because having science being published in academic journals or spoken about at academic conferences. That is not accessible for most people. These papers are behind paywalls and, even if they're not, they're written in ways that are really inaccessible. I think probably most people would agree that science really has a history of some elitism. Why scientists are trained to write big, long, convoluted sentences, a lot of jargon... it's kind of actively excluding people. I have this fundamental belief that science is relevant to everyone. Science is meaningful to everyone. Everybody should be in a position where they can make science-based, evidence-based decisions about their lives. But the reality is that most people don't have the opportunity or the luxury of studying a higher degree in science. And so for me, a lot of this is about accessibility and equity. I think when I first started getting into science communication, I was kind of like, "Rah, rah, rah, rah! I want to be a cheerleader for science because science is so cool". It's a really small part of it for me now, although I do think science is really cool. For me now, it's basically saying how privileged I am. I'm a white person who speaks English as a first language, who has a higher degree in science from a really great university that gives me access to all sorts of information. And so therefore, it's my job as a scientist to make sure that I can share that information in ways that are meaningful to anybody who might be interested or to help people who aren't even interested recognize that maybe this does have meaning for them. For me, science communication is all about how can we be more inclusive, how can we bring people in and help them to feel like science is is a safe place for them somewhere where they belong, rather than a lot of people out there were told at some point in their schooling that they didn't understand maths or they weren't smart enough to do science or whatever. And that's really sad because then, you know, people just switch off completely from any connection with science. But the pandemic has shown all of us very clearly that science is relevant to us all and we need to be able to make good decisions.
Kirsty: A link to Let's Talk SciComm podcast can be found in the notes for this episode. So... you've become a birdwatcher and you're ready to tell your friends and family about your new interest. Or you've been a birdwatcher for a while and you want to get more people involved. Or you're an experienced birdwatcher or scientist and you've been asked to speak to a group. Jen is here to help you communicate in any of these scenarios.
Jen: I think it comes back to how do we communicate effectively about anything, particularly if we feel like our audience may not be particularly engaged. And it comes down to a couple of key aspects of what effective communication is. So the first thing I would say is that you need a hook - you need an opening phrase, sentence stories, statistics, striking photo on your phone to show somebody - you need a way to capture somebody's attention. I think particularly right now, three years into a pandemic, everyone is very fatigued and is easily distracted. It's quite hard to get somebody to focus, even if it's somebody who loves you very much and is interested in you. So I think having something to capture somebody's attention so when somebody says, "Oh, what have you been up to lately? Haven't caught up with you for a while", you don't start with some kind of vague, "Oh, well, you know, this year I've spent a little bit of time birdwatching". By then, the person might already be like, "Get me out of here or get me another drink. That's the last thing I want to talk about!". But the hook is a really important part of science communication. So the very first sentence that you say to capture somebody's attention and then once somebody is vaguely listening to you and you've managed to convince them that this could be an interesting or worthwhile conversation, better than going and getting another drink or plate of whatever your family eats for Christmas.
Jen: I think then it comes down to storytelling. It's recognising that you've probably got a great story, just those little stories that I told earlier. Hopefully they transported people, even just with a few sentences, to imagining what it would be like to hop out of a car and see this bird that you've dreamed of saying for years and years and years, and it's just right there. Or to sit down and have a cup of tea in the middle of nowhere in the Kimberley and these beautiful coloured finches to sit down. Stories can be very, very engaging and enticing if they're told in a way that kind of leads people to be on, they're on the edge of their seat. So think about the last great movie you saw or the last great book you read. You kept reading because you wanted to find out what happened. So practice your storytelling skills where you set it up and then have this kind of reveal. Did you see the bird? Did you not see the bird? Was it what you're expecting? Were there eggs? Have a hook and tell a story rather than just fact, fact, fact, "We drove here, we got here, we were looking for this, we pulled out our binos". So... storytelling.
Jen: The third thing I think really is just not being afraid to show your love of what you do and your passion and your enthusiasm. 99% of people will be interested in listening to you when hearing that you care about it. And if your voice and your face and your words can convey that this is something that really lights you up and brings you joy (like finding these little patches of time to go out into the world and engage with it), I think most people will be really interested. It's when we sort of feel like, "Oh my God, this is so nerdy. I can't admit that! What I like to do in my spare time is watch birds!". Then we become boring. Because if you sound bored, of course your listeners, whoever's sitting with you is going to be bored. I would say to stand tall and say, "I'm a bird nerd and super proud of it. And I would love to tell you this cool story about something that happened". And if you don't feel like you can do that and stand up tall and shout to the rooftops that you love birds, then maybe don't set yourself up to be hurt and don't go there and talk about something else. If you're feeling like someone's going to judge you, that your hobby doesn't live up to their standards of what a cool hobby is, and maybe just don't go there. Your love of birdwatching stands, irrespective of somebody else judging you that they don't understand why that might be a wonderful thing to do.
Kirsty: Use a hook, tell a great story and show how much you care. These are three things that you can use to communicate about your love of birds and birdwatching. Some of us might experience a feeling of 'imposter syndrome' when talking about birds, especially when chatting with other birdwatchers, but Jen recommends that you don't let this hold you back.
Jen: Look, I think imposter syndrome is just absolutely rife, and we need to recognize that to some extent. Imposter syndrome, I think, is a positive sign. Imposter syndrome means that you are challenging yourself to do something new or to do something different or something outside your comfort zone. So I sort of feel like we need to not buy into those feelings of imposter syndrome being bad. And I should point out the women who did the original research, which led to this whole classification of imposter syndrome, they later said they wish they'd never called it imposter syndrome because imposter syndrome sounds like a bad thing. It's somehow a mental illness. They said they wish they'd call it the imposter experience just to normalize it for everybody, because it's just an experience that's common to everybody. And certainly in academia where I work, everybody experiences that. We're all constantly have stories in our heads which tell us we're not good enough, we're not smart enough, we don't know enough. Somebody's just about to find us out. So I guess one of the strategies that I think is useful when it comes to something like birdwatching is to ask yourself - Why would you be an expert? Are you a professional? Have you spent the last 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years following birds around and studying them? No, you've probably got a whole other career. Maybe you've got caring responsibilities. Maybe you already volunteer somewhere else. You know, you probably have a lot of things going on in your life, and this is something that you just kind of fit in when you can. So why on earth would you be an expert? That's just not realistic.
Jen: Once you remove that expectation of mastery and just kind of say, "I'm a beginner as an adult. I am so excited to have something in my life where I am absolutely a beginner or an amateur or whatever you want to call it". Weekend twitchers are the best people, right? And I sort of think, "Why should you be ashamed that you don't know as much as another person? How about owning the fact that you found something that you really enjoy that is not bad for the planet? Doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of money, is a really meditative and can be very mentally boosting thing to do". I just think we need to not give in to these messages that we hear about. You should only do things that you're really good at. People who follow me on social media will know that I run a lot. I'm a crap runner, right? Like I started running as a middle aged woman who's never been sporty in my life. But I love it because I don't have to be good at it. No one's expecting me to be good at it. I'm not a professional runner. I'm someone who just runs, you know, amidst a million other things that I do. So I think acknowledging that you feel like an imposter and just kind of saying, Yep, well, that's what exactly what I should be expecting. I'm not an expert here. No one expects me to be an expert. And then it becomes about just giving in to your curiosity and opening yourself up to the wonder of almost feeling like a child again, where you can ask people, "Wow! Why? And how? And what's this? And why is it doing that?". You know, just opening yourself up, having a really open heart and to some extent open mind and not giving in to judgment. Life's too short to worry about people who have their own securities that turn into them making some snide comment about you not knowing something that's their problem. It's not your problem. Just go and find someone else to birdwatch with. I know I'm making it sound really easy and I recognize it's not easy. I know that feeling like an imposter can be very, very unsettling and difficult and and hard, particularly if you are very skilled in another aspect of your life. But I think that's where the growth comes from. That's where the opportunity to become slightly different or exploring person can come from. And I think that's really valuable.
Kirsty: Jen gives the best pep talks, doesn't she? I definitely felt an imposter experience creating this podcast. I gave up science in year ten. I didn't know how to use a microphone and I'm definitely not an experienced birdwatcher. But I am an experienced teacher and that's part of the fun of it, isn't it? Leaning into something you've never done before, using the skills that you've got and enjoying the journey. I hope you're enjoying this journey with me too. Like so many of our Weekend Birder mates, Jen really loves her binoculars.
Jen: When I first got my job, so when I came out of my PhD and I was offered a one year academic job and I finally felt like I was going to be less poor than I'd ever been before, I did go out and splurge and bought myself a really nice pair of Leica binoculars. So I'm very happy with them still. I have no idea - there's probably better brands out there these days but at the time they felt pretty special and a gift to myself. But I think my favorite birdwatching tool is my old Pizzey and Knight book, which I did pull off the shelf and have a look at this morning. It's very worn. I think it's from the early 1990s, so I don't know how out of date it is (how much do birds change over time?). But the thing that I'm really pleased that I did is... Every bird that I've seen, I ticked and I wrote where I saw it. And so it just brings back all sorts of memories of back pre-kids pre-working full-time when I had a lot more time to engage with birds, doing a lot of field work with you Euan in Cape York and the Top End in the Kimberley and all sorts of places. Pre-kids, we used to go on holidays and I spent all that time looking for birds. Just seems to not happen anymore strangely enough. But I'm sure most people just use apps now, right? Who would want to lug around the book? But this was in the 1990s and 2000s when we didn't have amazing apps like we do now and just having a book that you could flick through and compare. I'm still a big fan of field guides and it's just a special thing to own with so many memories of great field trips in it.
Kirsty: I'll put a link to the book and the app that Jen is talking about in the episode notes. Here's one final thought from Jen.
Jen: I would just say... if it's something that brings you enjoyment and connection with nature and any sense of joy, just do it and don't care about what other people think. I mean, the reality is it's that whole thing of people who never go to the gym because they're so anxious about being judged by other people. But the reality is that no one's looking at you anyway because they're spending all their time thinking about themselves and looking at themselves in the mirror. I mean, on the one hand, I think birding is actually pretty cool these days. I think being a bird nerd is actually really cool. But if there's anyone in your life who doesn't think it's cool, I think it's their problem.
Kirsty: Jen recently published her first popular science book 'Why Am I Like This? The science behind your weirdest thoughts and habits'. Get your hands on a copy to see a really good example of science communication. Many thanks to Jen for sharing her passion, for connecting our shared human experience, her commitment to conservation and her love of nature. And many thanks to all the legends out there who have been leaving ratings and reviews on iTunes. You popped this little podcast onto Apple's radar, and I'm so very grateful.
